They might have been good shoes, but I could hardly pronounce them. I ordered the size listed, as advertised, based on my current shoes, and gotten one size larger, EE. They were ridiculously tight. I was very surprised that the forefoot was so narrow. Which men's shoes are pointed? Pretty sure the 4E would be ridiculously tight too. The problem is the shape of the shoes. Check out the top and bottom views in the pictures to see what I mean. But the length was good.