These pens are good for beginners but when you are trying to create real detail you want to look nice and smooth they are not that type of pencils that can be used. I bought these for my art class as they were fairly affordable - of course it's still incredibly fun - although once I started drawing with them they left incredibly rough marks on the paper no matter what pen I use. I highly recommend only investing in higher quality pens than these if possible. I recently tried Faber Castell, their pencils draw very smoothly and beautifully.
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