Three times as nice, as the saying goes. It's all about finding the right size for that shoe. We ordered my father's (1st) size 8M, too small - too short. So of course we increased the size by 1/2 and ordered 8.5m. This pair of shoes was 2 inches (according to my measurements) longer. This means my dad's sock was 2 inches shorter than the end and 1/2 size larger than what we ordered. Strange. So in the last attempt we ordered 8W. Fits perfectly. Although I have read all the information. and people's comments on the sizes of these shoes. Before I bought 1 it took 3 orders to find the right size. My dad wears an 8M and (for this shoe) an 8W. Find out.